Note: This interview is part of the Fired & Inspired series. All credit: Felien Geldhof & Dorien Camps. Photo credit: By Nouchka
Dare to slow down
Welcome to Fired & Inspired. A series of interviews with passionate creatives from different fields. We talk about the spark that started it all, the fire that motivates them.
In this interview, I talked with Dorien Camps, founder of Bossy magazine (Belgium’s first online platform and physical magazine with inspiration for life on and off the work floor), about how her Bossy adventure started, how she deals with entrepreneurship, and how her breast cancer diagnosis changed her.
Hey Dorien, if you had to introduce yourself to a group of people you didn’t know, what would you tell them about yourself?
That’s a difficult question, because until recently it was always: ‘Hello, I’m Dorien from Bossy’. It was a real luxury that people already knew I was Dorien from Bossy, without me having to introduce myself. But now, since I was diagnosed with breast cancer two years ago, I am no longer Dorien from Bossy. I feel like I am undergoing a transformation and searching for who I am and what I am doing now. Especially now that my work no longer defines who I am. So that is a very difficult question… I would say that I am currently someone who is changing course, but I don’t yet know exactly in which direction.
The spark
You come from a family of entrepreneurs, you worked in publishing, and then you had the idea to start a magazine. How did that idea come about? Was there a spark of, “I want to do that…?”
I think my preference for paper, for print, has always been there. The more digital the world became, the more I was drawn to it. Doing something slightly different from what you see always appealed to me. Everyone is going digital, everyone is creating a blog, and everyone has a website. I understand that you have to keep up with the digital world, but for me, that has ensured that this can also exist alongside it.
Yes, that’s true. I also tend to go for the unique side, doing something different from what everyone else is doing.
Yes, exactly. That’s much more fun too. And maybe this is sometimes easier, because you don’t have someone else doing the same thing as you. So that’s actually a blessing, because you can just discover it for yourself. But it’s also a challenge, because you can’t ask anyone else.
Doing something slightly different always appealed to me.
Dorien Camps
When did you feel that Bossy was successful? Was it the first year?
I created the magazine in the summer of 2018. The first issue was published in September 2018. There were a few moments when I thought, “Wow, this is something.” For me, the launch was a huge and wonderful confirmation that “Yes, this is what people want. This is what people need.” And then, two days after the launch, my best friend had her civil wedding in Diest, the town where I’m from. There was a bookstore whose window was filled with the first issue of Bossy. And there was a little note saying, ‘Yes, this is from Dorien from Diest.’ I actually saw someone walking around with the magazine and he said that a lot of people were already asking about it. So for me, that was like, this is bigger than just me doing something. This is really something that other people want too.
Were you still working for the publisher at that time? Or did you make the switch to Bossy?
I was no longer working full-time at the publisher. Bossy was released in September, and in October I said that I just wanted to work one more day as a freelancer for the publisher. A month later, I found out I was pregnant with Moris. It all happened very quickly. I also felt that if someone else jumped on board, they might want to leave their mark on it. So I thought, no, I’ll just do it on my own.
About challenges
What were the biggest Bossy challenges?
I am a creative person, I like to come up with new ideas and say: great, let’s do that. But the biggest challenge when I was still working full-time at Bossy, was the implementation and the financial aspect. I really didn’t like that. Also the digital side, because I make a physical product and I think that’s really cool. But then asking me to figure out how we can fine-tune our subscription formula or online advertising… I really hated that.
I completely understand that. I’m also very creative, but I find the business side very difficult.
I do enjoy putting energy into partnerships. We sit down together, work out a few nice concepts, turn them into a presentation, and then pitch them. That’s really cool. But then there’s the technical side of things… That was a real challenge for me. And also keeping myself detached. I’ve always made decisions based on ‘this is mine, but this isn’t mine either.’ That’s why Lara, from Superset, one of my best friends, did the design, so I knew ‘this isn’t going to be Dorien, but Bossy’. I did learn that, learning to make decisions based on ‘it’s not too close to me’.
You said that you are not currently actively involved with Bossy professionally. How does that feel for you, letting go?
That felt very difficult at first. I’ve been on this road to recovery for two years now, and it’s been incredibly tough. This year, for example, I’ve already had four surgeries, and then you realize, I don’t want to be dealing with my business at all. Jennifer is doing a great job, but there were always questions that came to me. The difficult issues, or the shit, to put it bluntly, always end up coming back to you. And sometimes I would say to Nigel (Dorien’s husband, ed.), “Can you take a look at that? I don’t have the energy for it.” You don’t want to waste the little energy you have when you’ve been ill, on things like that.
As a creative person, I know there are some fears. Fear of failure, fear that it won’t be good enough. How do you look at fear?
I just wanted to hold a magazine in my hands. To create it the way I wanted it to look. If I like it, someone else can still say they don’t like it. But that’s not failure, that’s just a different opinion. When we do something and we think it’s important, we want it to be high quality. So we work with good partners and use good materials. And we believe in it ourselves. Those are all factors that mean you don’t have to be afraid of the result. And failure… What is failure? I’ve probably done things that I wouldn’t do now. But there’s nothing that I can look back on and say, yes, I really failed there.
Motivation
A creative life is beautiful and powerful. You also have your freedom. But of course, it can be demanding in many other areas. Where did you get your greatest drive and energy from?
When I was fully focused on Bossy, it was my connection with my readers. If I knew that 150 women would come to the event, I really wanted to see them and talk to them. And I could live off those conversations for months, which I really loved. Or people who sent emails saying… ‘I bought that, or I took Bossy with me on my trip’. The positive reactions from the people you do it for, I thought that was really cool. But going full throttle with Bossy and then doing the same at home, I found that really difficult. It was always about dividing my attention and energy. Now that I’m putting less energy into Bossy, because I’m not working at the moment, I notice that all my energy can go to my children, and I’m really enjoying that.
What keeps you motivated during times of uncertainty?
I think it’s mainly talking to others. Knowing that you’re not alone, because everyone has problems. I feel that when I meet up with someone now, people dare to be even more honest. Or because of what I’ve been through, I have a different view on life and they feel that we shouldn’t beat around the bush. I don’t know what it is, but I notice it very strongly in conversations. But no one is quick to share the more difficult things. I also found it difficult to share right away when things weren’t going well.
Routines & Creativity
What routines or habits help you stay focused or balanced?
Preparation is everything. I am both an entrepreneur and a mother, and I also have my own things to do. Planning the schedule carefully each week is something Nigel and I discuss every Sunday evening, even now that I am not working. We discuss things like, “Okay, what’s happening this week? What are you going to do? What am I going to do? When are we going to exercise?” Whether that’s meal prepping or figuring out what clothes I’m going to wear tomorrow. Just trying to prepare as well as possible in all areas gives me a lot of peace.
Do you think creativity is something we’re born with or something we learn?
I think we are creative by nature, but I also think we have to discover that along the way. But we don’t nurture it enough, or we sometimes dull it by, say, using AI to write for us. But maybe we can do that really well ourselves. Or a printer that prints out your coloring page. But maybe you can draw it yourself first and then color it in.
What connection do you see between self-confidence and creativity?
You really need self-confidence to be creative. Or is it just letting your creativity run wild that gives you self-confidence? I think the two are very closely related. It’s like a switch or something. You see it with children too. They get so caught up in it. Their creativity goes in all directions. Look, Mom, how beautiful. And I think, wow. Wonderful, isn’t it?
There is no single type of entrepreneurship
Dorien Camps
Growth
Is there anything you used to believe about yourself that you had to outgrow or something you had to unlearn in order to continue growing?
Good question. I thought sales wasn’t for me. Because I associated sales very strongly with being slick and impersonal. Really selling, you know. Actually, that’s something I ended up really liking. It’s funny, because Jennifer took over for a while and she had exactly the same experience. You can just do it the way you want to. I think that’s true for a lot of things in business. There’s no one way to do business. There are lots of ways, and you have to find your own way. It’s the same with marketing: find your own way. Maybe you think you don’t have that skill, but you can grow and you can also adapt things to suit who you are.
What personal growth have you experienced as an entrepreneur?
I think I’ve grown a lot to find my own place. I started making a magazine, but I wasn’t prepared for the fact that people would get to know me so well. I think you have to be able to fulfill that role. It’s a kind of personal brand, and I always thought it was important to present that authentically. I always emphasized that. When we did something, did a shoot, or recorded Bossy TV, authenticity always had to be preserved.
Have you ever had a moment when you thought, okay, enough is enough, I’m quitting. And then you thought, maybe I should approach it this way?
Yes, I often thought, no, let it be, stop. Every time the pre-order period ended. You start packing and then you think, why did I think it was a good idea to pack those thousand orders myself? Those kinds of things where you think it won’t be that bad. Or the Christmas boxes or the first summer box. There was a skirt in there and people could specify a size, but that wasn’t specifically listed in the webshop for selection. That was really difficult, because everyone wanted a different size and then the skirts were sold out. Terrible. So keep it stupid and simple, that’s always the better strategy.
From which moment did you learn the most?
I thought I had to do a few difficult things and then I would have learned the lessons of entrepreneurship. Like, we’re going to bring in our first customer. Okay, we’ve learned that, we know how to do it, we can do it now. But everything is different. And everything is, as cliché as it sounds, a lesson. When things don’t go well or a launch doesn’t start so well, you think, oh no. But you learn to switch gears immediately. I’ve also learned that you always have to have a plan B. And then, if that doesn’t work out, you can just switch to plan B right away.
Always have a plan B
Dorien Camps
Dream big
If you could dream big, what would you still want to achieve? If there were no limits whatsoever, what else would you want to do?
A successful business together with my husband. He is an architect. So something to do with architecture, interior design, nice spaces. Creating communities is also something I really enjoy and something that Bossy has been very successful at so far. So I feel that we could do something together in that area. But we have no concrete ideas yet.
If you could leave a message for people who are going to read this, what would you say?
I think… dare to slow down. I don’t know when you’re reading this, or what time of day it is. But ask yourself if there’s anything you’ve done too hastily today. Or is there something you could do with a little more zest? You can ask yourself this question every day, every week, every month, or even at the end of the year. Why have I been rushing too much? And what if I hadn’t done that…
Dare to slow down
Dorien Camps
Some extra Dorien facts
What is your favorite season?
I always think spring/summer, but now that it’s fall, I think I really like it. Purely because fall is the first season where you think you’re going to slow down a bit. At this stage in my life, I think it’s great that even a season can remind me that it’s okay to slow down. So yes, I think fall.
Are you someone who follows your gut feeling or do you think things through?
Gut feeling. Definitely. I always have that gut feeling, and then afterwards I think… Maybe I should have done this or that instead. But that’s for next time. I’m not someone who really takes risks. But I do dare to follow my gut feeling and draw on the experience of recent years. And know that it will be okay or that it will work. Or if I think it’s cool, others will think it’s cool too.
One thing I learn over and over again is… I think it’s going to be letting go after all.
According to you, living creatively means … the best life.
Is there a word or phrase that always sticks with you?
A quote I picked up somewhere is, “Whatever you are, be a good one.” Because I believe you can change your paths and do different things in life. And whatever is right for you, just try to be good at it and throw yourself into it completely.
If you were to give a masterclass, what would it be about if you could really choose?
At this moment, I am thinking about slowing down.
I’m still figuring out… how it can all be made easier.
What was the last book you read? “Discipline is the goal” by Ryan Holiday.
When was the last time you said to yourself: Well done? Oh dear, I don’t know, so I probably don’t say it enough. I did yesterday, and it’s kind of funny… I was hanging out the laundry and Nigel was already sitting on the couch, and I said, “The little elves did a good job again.” I should have said that I did a good job.
Early mornings or late evenings? I try to get up early in the morning. Just getting up on time is good enough for me. It doesn’t have to be super early, just getting up on time. That gives me more energy than going to bed late.
You can find Dorien at:
Instagram: DorienCamps or wearebossy
Felien’s social media platforms are:
Instagram: feliengeldhof
Pinterest: lontenco
Website: Lont & Co
Photo Dorien: By Nouchka